Катастрофа Boeing 787-8 (VT-ANB) Air India в Ахмадабаде 12.06.2025
G8000
Старожил
Первый параграф согласен.
Второй параграф АТ подключается через автопилот. Автопилот не используют при взлете
mishk
Старожил
TO/GA это ниочем?
G8000
Старожил
да, точно...
а ТО - Thrust (takeoff) mode тоже есть?
jurijt
Любитель этого дела!
Так а что по вашему TO/GA ??
Take-Off/Go Around
G8000
Старожил
а TO/GA это часть АТА22 - автопилот. в котором я не коменгаген как легко можно было убедиться по моему ответу. Ну тогда какие версии могут быть раз все вкурсе? Берите дискуссию в свои руки. Логика, версии что могло пойти не так?
jurijt
Любитель этого дела!
161 станица версий...
G8000
Старожил
страниц версий в разы меньше. вокруг да около с указанием количества страниц, вот этого большинство
JGM
Местный
Так может они и пострадали, форуму мало что известно...
constructor
Старожил
Осталось потерпеть совсем немного, и, может быть, мы прочитаем предварительный отчет. Вчерне он уже готов.
stranger267
Старожил
Видел несколько раз и 10 КМ, в пустыне, а уж 3 км видел много много раз. И если у вас длина разбега до отрыва 1 км а полоса 3 км то вы и после V1 просто сядете перед собой при отказе.
АртемД
Новичок
> Видел несколько раз и 10 КМ, в пустыне
Это как?
Это как?
JGM
Местный
Самая длинная взлётно-посадочная полоса (ВПП) в мире находится в аэропорту King Fahd International Airport в Саудовской Аравии. Её длина — более 5 километров. airport-bbi.com> Видел несколько раз и 10 КМ, в пустыне
Это как?
Некоторые другие аэропорты с длинными ВПП:
- Авиабаза Эдвардс (США). Грунтовая ВПП 17/35, расположенная на поверхности высохшего озера Роджерс, имеет длину 11 917×297 метров. bigenc.ruotvet.mail.rum.ok.ru
- Аэропорт города Чамдо (КНР). ВПП в этом аэропорту — 5500 метров. bigenc.rum.ok.ru
- Аэропорт Шигадзе (КНР). Длина ВПП — 5000 метров. curlytales.combigorre.org
Dmikras
Старожил
Через сколько секунд после V1? Методику в студию - как для конкретных условий посчитать через сколько секунд можно не лететь дальше а через сколько уже только вперед.
И вы не ответили на второй вопрос - сколько секунд у вас уйдет определить что пожар нелокализированный и где в этот момент будет самолет.
Жду с нетерпением ответ.
кофейник
Старожил
EEC Thrust Management
1. The EEC thrust management systems include:
- Thrust control malfunction accommodation
- Overspeed protection.
2. A thrust control malfunction (TCM) is defined as an uncommanded and/or
uncontrollable overthrust condition, also known as uncontrollable high thrust in
which the thrust lever command cannot decrease thrust during forward or
reverse thrust operation.
3. A failure in the engine control system can cause engine thrust to either
increase significantly more than commanded and/or stay high when low thrust
is commanded.
4. This type of failure could result in an asymmetric thrust condition which is
uncontrollable on the ground, and pose a hazard to the airplane.
5. Overspeed protection is calculated by the EEC.
- The EEC controls engine fuel flow to limit fan speed N1 and core speed N2.
System Description Section
General
The electronic engine control (EEC) is a computer control system. The EEC
supplies these functions:
- Thrust control
- Fault monitoring and accommodation
- Maintenance test capability.
The EEC controls the engine in response to thrust command inputs from the
airplane from the common data network (CDN). It supplies data for the flight
deck indication, maintenance reporting, and engine condition monitoring. The
EEC controls the operation, performance, and efficiency properties of the
engine.
Power
The EEC gets power from the permanent magnet alternator (PMA). The PMA
drive is from the accessory gear box (AGB). The PMA has separate coils for
each EEC channel. The EEC also gets 115v ac airplane power. Airplane
power is used for EEC maintenance, backup power, and engine start.
EEC Functional Description
The EEC has 2 channels, A and B. Each channel can operate the engine
systems. One channel at a time controls the valves and actuators. It does this
directly or with fuel signals from the servo valve assembly (SVA) in the fuel
metering unit (FMU). The channel in control is the active channel. The other
channel is in standby. The EEC alternates the channel in control on each
engine start. It first does a self-test to make sure that each channel is fully
functional.
Control of the engine systems is based on thrust revolver angle (TRA) from
the airplane. The EEC uses inputs supplied by the engine sensors and probes.
It also uses data from the airplane computers, switches, and controls. The
EEC processes the data and then calculates and compares it to information
stored in its memory. Position feedback from linear variable differential
transformers (LVDT) lets the EEC know that the control is correct.
The EEC limits the engine to the approved rotor speed limits. The usual EEC
control of engine fuel flow is by the fuel metering valve in the FMU. If an
overspeed or overthrust condition occurs, the electronic overspeed (EOS)
protection circuit or the thrust control malfunction accommodation (TCMA)
overrides the active/inactive channel function. These protections are channel
active/active, so either channel can shutoff fuel to the engine. Overspeed
protection is provided by electronic speed switches in the EEC. Each EEC
channel has 2 speed switches. Each speed switch uses signals from the core
speed sensors and the alternator. Both switches must close to cause the
engine to stop. The fuel is shutoff with the high pressure shutoff valve
(HPSOV) in the FMU. The engine overspeed shutoff system in the FMU
operates through the same hydro-mechanical components used in a normal
engine shutdown. Activation of the protection circuit results in a safe engine
shutdown.
The EEC TCMA function is active on the ground and monitors to make sure
that engine thrust decreases when the thrust levers are moved to engine idle.
This occurs in a refused takeoff (RTO) or uncontrolled high thrust event. If the
thrust does not decrease, the EEC TCMA function stops the engine with the
fuel shutoff valve in the FMU. The FMU is mechanically latched until the next
reset of the fuel metering valve if an overspeed or overthrust condition occurs.
The EEC gets engine rating and N1 thrust modifier data from an engine rating
plug. It gets configuration data from an engine configuration box. These
devices are attached to the engine and connect to the EEC. The EEC receives
airplane model identification from the airplane through the CDN.
For thrust control, the EEC uses total air temperature (TAT) data from the
airplane air data reference system. The backup source of this data is the T12
sensor. The EEC compares the compensated T12 value to the TAT provided
by the aircraft. If the aircraft TAT and compensated T12 temperature agree
within +/- 2.5C, the EEC uses the aircraft TAT for its final selected TAT signal.
This is the signal used for thrust management. Between +/- 2.5C and +/- 5C,
the EEC interprets a comparison of the compensated T12 for the selected TAT
signal. If the difference is more than +/- 5C, the EEC uses the compensated
T12 signal.
The EEC mode switch is on the engine start/ignition panel on the P5 overhead
panel. The switch is a 2-position, guarded, alternate-action switch.
The switch lets the pilots set the EEC control mode. The usual position of the
EEC mode switch is in. When the switch is in, the EEC is in the normal mode
(NORM). In the normal mode, the EEC uses inlet temperature and thrust lever
angle (TLA) to set engine speed.
The non-normal position of the EEC mode switch is out. When the switch is
out, the EEC is in the alternate mode (ALTN). In the alternate mode, the EEC
uses N1 and a TLA schedule to control the engine thrust.
In the alternate mode and the thrust levers are at a set position, the thrust
changes as the flight condition changes. Adjustment of the thrust levers is
necessary to keep the correct thrust as the airplane operates.
To set the proper rated thrust in the normal mode, the EEC calculates an N1
correction. Corrected N1 is based on ambient temperature. The EEC uses
(P0) ambient pressure and (PT) total pressure to calculate Mach number. It
uses Mach number and (TAT) total air temperature to calculate ambient
temperature, and then corrects it for standard day conditions. There are
multiple sources of TAT and P0. There is only one source for PT.
The EEC turns on the ALTN light on the EEC mode switch if it does not get the
airplane PT signal. The EEC then uses the last valid PT signal. This is the soft
alternate mode.
You must then put the switch in the ALTN position to put the EEC in the hard
alternate mode.
The switch on the P5 overhead panel lets the flight crew select the hard
alternate mode of control. When the hard alternate mode is selected, the failsafe
total pressure (PT) is used for maximum N1 calculation. When using the
fail-safe total pressure values to calculate maximum N1, it is possible to
overboost thrust with the thrust lever at or near the full forward position. To
prevent the overboost condition, the thrust levers should be in the mid position
before selection of the hard alternate mode of control.
Overspeed Protection
1. The EEC maintains the engine within certified rotor speed limits.
2. The usual EEC control of engine fuel flow is with the fuel metering valve in
the fuel metering unit (FMU).
3. If a failure occurs such that normal EEC control of the engine thrust level is
not functioning, the EEC provides independent rotor overspeed protection with
an electronic overspeed system (EOS).
4. The EOS uses a dedicated electro-hydraulic servo valve (EHSV) to close
the fuel shutoff valve when the N2 rotor is more than 120.8%.
5. Dedicated electronic speed switches in the EEC, independent of CPU
functions, provide overspeed protection.
6. Each EEC channel has 2 speed switches.
- Each switch uses signals from the core speed sensor and the PMA, both
switches must close to flame out the engine.
7. The overspeed system in both channels is always active regardless of
which channel is in control.
8. Protection of the N1 rotor is also provided by this method, because GE has
shown that the N1 rotor cannot exceed its limit without the N2 rotor exceeding
its limit.
9. Activation of overspeed protection results in a safe engine shutdown.
10. There is a test of the EOS relay activation circuitry during every start as
the engine approaches idle.
11. This test does not inhibit fuel flow and is transparent to normal engine
operation.
12. The EOS test first does a check of the output status of both output switches
- If either is failed closed, the test is aborted.
13. The EOS test then verifies that the EOS high-side and low-side relay
switches individually close on command.
14. Closure of both relay switches would activate the HPSOV.
- A test of the HPSOV is done during the TCMA functional test.
System Description Section
Engine overspeed (EOS) protection is automatically supplied by the EEC. This
keeps the engine within rotor speed limits. Each channel has 2 speed switches
that use signals from the core speed sensor and the permanent magnet
alternator (PMA). The 2 switches must close for overspeed protection to occur.
The usual EEC control of engine fuel flow is by the fuel metering valve in the
FMU. When the core engine speed is more than 120% and usual engine
control with the fuel metering valve does not operate, the EEC closes the fuel
shut-off valve in the FMU. This causes a safe engine shutdown.
Dmikras
Старожил
Вы бы хоть немного FCOM (в инете есть) почитали прежде чем версии такие двигать. Если бы почитали - увидели бы что такое take off inhibits и отказались бы от своей версии
Dmikras
Старожил
И эти аэродромы в пустыне используются авиакомпаниями при пассажирских, грузовых перевозках?
кофейник
Старожил
The thrust levers supply thrust command signals to the EECs through the TLA
resolvers. Each thrust lever mechanically connects to a TLA resolver. When
the thrust lever moves, it turns the TLA resolver. The EECs supply power to
the TLA resolvers and receive the position of the resolvers. The resolvers
send thrust lever resolver angle (TRA) data to the EECs and the common core
system (CCS) for thrust control.
Position Resolvers
Each lever operates 2 isolated resolvers through a dual gear/linkage drive.
This gives redundancy and safety for single point failures.
1. Each thrust lever mechanically connects to 2 thrust lever angle (TLA)
resolvers, which send thrust lever resolver angle (TRA) data to the EEC for
thrust control.
2. The thrust control system can continue normal operation with a failure of
one resolver.
3. The EEC reads each winding and validates that the voltage is in range.
- If the signals pass these electrical checks, but the 2 TRA signals disagree,
the EEC selects the higher value to maintain maximum thrust setting capability
and selects the value closest to idle for thrust control malfunction
accommodation (TCMA) to protect against uncontrolled high thrust (UHT) on
the ground.
4. If both TRA signals are out of range, the last valid TRA value is used.
5. If both resolvers fail electrically, the EEC holds the last valid value for 2
seconds, then sets the engine thrust to idle.
- Default to idle thrust is acceptable because it only affects one engine.
6. The thrust management function (TMF) of the common core system (CCS)
supplies thrust command signals to the autothrottle servo motors to operate
the thrust levers.
7. The reverse thrust levers are on the thrust levers.
8. The TO/GA switches send signals to the autoflight and the thrust
management function (TMF) to start the TO/GA mode.
17. When the fuel control switch is set to the RUN position:
- Airplane electrical system power is removed from the FMU shut-off coil to
enable the engine fuel shutoff valve to open by the EEC command when
sufficient fuel pressure is provided by the engine rotation to open the valve
- Airplane electrical system power is supplied to the open winding of the
airplane spar valve motor
- Airplane electrical system power is supplied to the engine ignition system
which then can be turned on or off by the EEC
- Airplane electrical system power is supplied to the EEC until sufficient
power is provided by the permanent magnetic alternator (PMA)
- Airplane electrical system power is supplied to the engine monitoring unit
(EMU).
Выборочно, что я счел интересным. Меня и так сильно много.
Картинку Гуру давал где-то.
кофейник
Старожил
Смогу ответить, если сформулируете более конкретно. Извините, пожалуйста.
Dmikras
Старожил
Прочитал это сообщение и задумался. То что не опираюсь на РУДы или другие органы управления когда встаю с кресла - в этом сомнений нет. Но на что вообще опираюсь - так и не смог вспомнить. Видать как сороконожка у которой спросили с какой ножки она начинает движение.
Вчера решил сам себя проконтролировать - и обнаружил что я вообще ни на что не опираюсь когда встаю из кресла.
Обратил внимание как второй пилот встает - он одной рукой слегка опирался на нижнюю часть спинки кресла.
Не был в кабине 787, но не думаю что у 787 она меньше.
Может и вы попробуйте вставать ни на что не опираясь?
Не думаю что то большая проблема возникнет.